Arcanus {Alex} (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mywayofhelping) wrote2012-05-20 03:02 am
mywayofhelping) wrote2012-05-20 03:02 am
Entry tags:
Alex and Amiti
The following is my list of reasons why I think that Alex has no idea who exactly Amiti is other than "that other Water Adept that was with Matthew" (if he even gave him that much attention). Yes, I babble and I probably thought about this more than the creators ever did, but this will show why I will flip things if they say otherwise. I will say now that the ONLY thing that could make me believe anything else at this point is if we learn he has another child running around out there but I really doubt that. Of course I also really doubted that he would have a child in the first place, so I can't completely argue away alternate views.
The first thing to consider is the character they've built for Alex so far. It at least appears like they put a lot of thought into him so I would hope that they keep him consistent. First and foremost, we know Alex is a cocky, manipulative bastard. He may hide his true intentions, but he makes it fairly obvious that he has some kind of hidden agenda. Also to my knowledge, the only time he ever flat out didn't do what he said he would was when he left Imil and came back and lit Mercury Lighthouse. Alex is very careful to not lie, and in Dark Dawn he even pointed out that he had been truthful the whole time. If he lies, people can undoubtedly accuse him of wrongdoing and he doesn't want any blame for anything he gets people to do to be pinned directly on him. He may not tell the whole truth, but he never says anything in the games that ends up being wrong. I even have a "real life" example: I stood around for several minutes at the end of Dark Dawn waiting for whatever was going to happen next after he said you wouldn't be able to fire the Lens. I felt like I was doing something utterly stupid when I realized we were supposed to keep trying. And gasp, listening to him was right.
Keeping all this in consideration, Alex is also very careful about his plans. He is constantly keeping tabs on any element of them in one way or another, which was mostly seen in The Lost Age. If someone or something isn't heading in the correct direction it would ruin everything, after all. He's also very upfront when he's checking on said elements. Even if he was lurking he appears to admit to it in one way or another later.
That being said, Alex hardly makes any acknowledgment that Amiti exists during the scenes they're both in. He practically flaunts the fact that he knows about the kids of the first party and taunts Kraden when he doesn't immediately recognize him. With Amiti, though, Alex only briefly responds to anything pertinent he says and then moves on. He seriously couldn't care less about him. If Alex had plotted to have a child, wouldn't he be very smug and at least hint that he knew something? Also, during one of the few responses in the Alchemy Dynamo, Alex seems surprised that Amiti was "clever" enough to figure out Tuaparang's involvement. If he knew about him at all, doesn't he have enough of an ego to expect his own blood to be more intelligent than other people?
Next is the way he meticulously makes sure things are going according to plan. Paithos was likely on the lookout for him and any reports of a strange man would have definitely caught his attention. It sounds like no one ever spotted Alex there again. And, according to Baghi, Amiti was very sheltered and hard for outsiders to get to. Someone would have spotted something sooner or later if Alex had been checking on him. I doubt he had anyone looking on his behalf, because he couldn't guarantee whoever it was wouldn't turn on him in some manner. This only leaves the conclusion that Alex wasn't, which means this was not part of a plan.
It would have been virtually impossible to plan anyway because no one knew that the Insight Glass had to be possessed by someone from Ayuthay. Passing down that knowledge would have defeated the purpose of that failsafe, and if anyone were to know, it would have been someone in the kingdom. Yes, Alex does tend to know a lot of things that most people don't, but that was pretty clearly a bit of information that NO ONE knew. If you use Spirit Sense on one of Paithos' advisers, he even thinks "Our greatest secret is that Ayuthay hid the Insight Glass – so secret, that I've never known what it actually is!" If he didn't know, the odds of Alex having a way to learn that are slim to none. And if he couldn't know, he wouldn't have a reason to sire a child there.
Another trait of Alex's which was beautifully given proper screentime in Dark Dawn is the fact that unless absolutely necessary, he will not lift a finger to get any of the work done to complete his goal. A lot of this deals with the things that cause more harm than good on their own. If he doesn't actually get physically involved, technically speaking he can't be blamed. About the only work he was shown doing in the first two games was holding off soldiers at the beginning of The Lost Age so Jenna and Kraden could escape because he had no other choice.
The fact that he went to Ayuthay in the first place sounds strange enough, but let's consider the standings of everything at that point. Ten years after the Golden Sun/twenty years before Dark Dawn, there were only three Water Adepts actively in Weyard since I'm under the impression that Lemuria still keeps to itself for the most part. The other two were Mia and Piers, who Alex couldn't approach at all. He had to guarantee the Alchemy Well would be working, so he went to start it himself. The strange part is that he got it fully operational. We saw with the Alchemy Forge that you could just start it up and go get the mask and it would still be waiting when you returned. They never stated if it would shut off after a certain amount of time, but I assume they would have mentioned it if that were the case. Ayuthay was hurting at the time but it had hung on for that long, and the people in Passaj knew the legends so keeping the kingdom alive wasn't a seeable necessity. Why did Alex go so far as to get the Luna Mask? He could have easily left that to the Adepts of legend. The fact that he left a note implies that even he thought they should be seeking it. There has to be some reason that he felt it was necessary for him to get it completely started, and it's likely related either to my next point, or to him having no guarantee of another Water Adept being around to do it for him. If he'd known he'd be having a child, that wouldn't have been necessary.
My final two points involve two seemingly innocent bits of dialogue that seem less random in this context. We know they've been prone to doing this to figure things out in this series. See: why we know Alex is the father in the first place. And also that Sheba is really from Anemos after you Mind Read that guy in Contigo. So, continuing with Mind Reads in The Lost Age, there is one instance where Alex actually has his defenses down enough so you can get something from him that's not a clear block or him obviously knowing you're there so he gives away nothing new. This is in Jupiter Lighthouse after he heals Felix and company and states that he can throw people away when they're no longer of use to him. It's worth noting all this because the Mind Read shows that he's actually worrying about Mia and wants to help her, but he just calls himself weak for it. Apparently it's still enough to make him want to cut ties with Karst and Agatio. Before anyone says this contradicts my "never lying" point, I actually think that supports that Alex wants to be someone with no attachments to other people but even he has a bit of a heart, even if he doesn't want it.
This being the case, Veriti's claim that he loved her could be plausible. We barely know anything about her so it's hard to make arguments either way. If Alex felt any kind of attachment to her, though, his actions fit his prior behavior. He realized that he had gotten WAY too close to her and snuck off before any more damage could be done to his self-image. He was never spotted again because he was avoiding Ayuthay so he wouldn't see her again. He even didn't go to the southern passage in the Konpa Ruins when they captured Rief, i.e. the one that led to Ei-Jei. This is similar to the events around the lighting of Mercury Lighthouse. Alex obviously never entered Imil and only came out of hiding at the Aerie to make sure Saturos didn't die. Other than that, he seems to pointedly avoid Mia and anything else related to his past. Alex makes mistakes, the Golden Sun incident being the prime example. All of that quite easily could have carried over to the fateful Ayuthay trip.
Finally, and possibly the most easy to miss, is a line in Dark Dawn that people appear to have taken as just being silly, though I really hope I'm not the only person that's spotted this. When we first meet Eoleo, he notes to Amiti that he's "never seen an Ayuthay wear real clothes before." Point being: Amiti changed clothes. Why would the game designers bother to use programming space to make two versions of him? He and Paithos were the only ones dressed like that in the country so just having it be Paithos in the skirt thing wouldn't have been odd. I find it hard to believe that this was merely a silly little thing they added in. If Amiti was not dressed like a normal citizen of Ayuthay, Alex wouldn't be able to tell where he's from by looking at him.
Amiti had heard of Eoleo so the reverse could also be true which is how he guessed he was from Ayuthay. Amiti might have made a good hostage for ransom someday since he's so beloved by his people, for example. Alex may have just thought what many of the fans assumed when the art was being released: someone else got out of Lemuria. Or he may have thought it if he even cared enough about the random Water Adept in the group to want to know. Regardless, he'd have no reason to suspect he was from Ayuthay. Adepts don't come from there, especially Mercury-aligned ones. Only one person in the area ever said anything about Amiti being an Adept until he joined, and it was a random citizen at that, so it probably wasn't discussed much. Therefore, if Alex had no idea and was avoiding Ayuthay, the odds of him hearing about him are miniscule.
On top of that, no personal details about Amiti are ever mentioned when Alex is in a scene. They never say his name or his age or where he's from obviously. Not that any of that would have been overly pertinent to a conversation, but the fact that it didn't happen still supports Alex not knowing.
The short version: they provide us with some prime examples for ways Alex wouldn't be able to figure out that he has a son just by looking at him because he doesn't know and they're keeping it that way for now.
Believe it or not I could try to cite a few more things but the canon support is a bit flimsy so I won't bother. I think this is more than enough to support my theory. And if I'm wrong, I'll have serious doubts about their storytelling ability because it's usually better than what doing that would make it.
The first thing to consider is the character they've built for Alex so far. It at least appears like they put a lot of thought into him so I would hope that they keep him consistent. First and foremost, we know Alex is a cocky, manipulative bastard. He may hide his true intentions, but he makes it fairly obvious that he has some kind of hidden agenda. Also to my knowledge, the only time he ever flat out didn't do what he said he would was when he left Imil and came back and lit Mercury Lighthouse. Alex is very careful to not lie, and in Dark Dawn he even pointed out that he had been truthful the whole time. If he lies, people can undoubtedly accuse him of wrongdoing and he doesn't want any blame for anything he gets people to do to be pinned directly on him. He may not tell the whole truth, but he never says anything in the games that ends up being wrong. I even have a "real life" example: I stood around for several minutes at the end of Dark Dawn waiting for whatever was going to happen next after he said you wouldn't be able to fire the Lens. I felt like I was doing something utterly stupid when I realized we were supposed to keep trying. And gasp, listening to him was right.
Keeping all this in consideration, Alex is also very careful about his plans. He is constantly keeping tabs on any element of them in one way or another, which was mostly seen in The Lost Age. If someone or something isn't heading in the correct direction it would ruin everything, after all. He's also very upfront when he's checking on said elements. Even if he was lurking he appears to admit to it in one way or another later.
That being said, Alex hardly makes any acknowledgment that Amiti exists during the scenes they're both in. He practically flaunts the fact that he knows about the kids of the first party and taunts Kraden when he doesn't immediately recognize him. With Amiti, though, Alex only briefly responds to anything pertinent he says and then moves on. He seriously couldn't care less about him. If Alex had plotted to have a child, wouldn't he be very smug and at least hint that he knew something? Also, during one of the few responses in the Alchemy Dynamo, Alex seems surprised that Amiti was "clever" enough to figure out Tuaparang's involvement. If he knew about him at all, doesn't he have enough of an ego to expect his own blood to be more intelligent than other people?
Next is the way he meticulously makes sure things are going according to plan. Paithos was likely on the lookout for him and any reports of a strange man would have definitely caught his attention. It sounds like no one ever spotted Alex there again. And, according to Baghi, Amiti was very sheltered and hard for outsiders to get to. Someone would have spotted something sooner or later if Alex had been checking on him. I doubt he had anyone looking on his behalf, because he couldn't guarantee whoever it was wouldn't turn on him in some manner. This only leaves the conclusion that Alex wasn't, which means this was not part of a plan.
It would have been virtually impossible to plan anyway because no one knew that the Insight Glass had to be possessed by someone from Ayuthay. Passing down that knowledge would have defeated the purpose of that failsafe, and if anyone were to know, it would have been someone in the kingdom. Yes, Alex does tend to know a lot of things that most people don't, but that was pretty clearly a bit of information that NO ONE knew. If you use Spirit Sense on one of Paithos' advisers, he even thinks "Our greatest secret is that Ayuthay hid the Insight Glass – so secret, that I've never known what it actually is!" If he didn't know, the odds of Alex having a way to learn that are slim to none. And if he couldn't know, he wouldn't have a reason to sire a child there.
Another trait of Alex's which was beautifully given proper screentime in Dark Dawn is the fact that unless absolutely necessary, he will not lift a finger to get any of the work done to complete his goal. A lot of this deals with the things that cause more harm than good on their own. If he doesn't actually get physically involved, technically speaking he can't be blamed. About the only work he was shown doing in the first two games was holding off soldiers at the beginning of The Lost Age so Jenna and Kraden could escape because he had no other choice.
The fact that he went to Ayuthay in the first place sounds strange enough, but let's consider the standings of everything at that point. Ten years after the Golden Sun/twenty years before Dark Dawn, there were only three Water Adepts actively in Weyard since I'm under the impression that Lemuria still keeps to itself for the most part. The other two were Mia and Piers, who Alex couldn't approach at all. He had to guarantee the Alchemy Well would be working, so he went to start it himself. The strange part is that he got it fully operational. We saw with the Alchemy Forge that you could just start it up and go get the mask and it would still be waiting when you returned. They never stated if it would shut off after a certain amount of time, but I assume they would have mentioned it if that were the case. Ayuthay was hurting at the time but it had hung on for that long, and the people in Passaj knew the legends so keeping the kingdom alive wasn't a seeable necessity. Why did Alex go so far as to get the Luna Mask? He could have easily left that to the Adepts of legend. The fact that he left a note implies that even he thought they should be seeking it. There has to be some reason that he felt it was necessary for him to get it completely started, and it's likely related either to my next point, or to him having no guarantee of another Water Adept being around to do it for him. If he'd known he'd be having a child, that wouldn't have been necessary.
My final two points involve two seemingly innocent bits of dialogue that seem less random in this context. We know they've been prone to doing this to figure things out in this series. See: why we know Alex is the father in the first place. And also that Sheba is really from Anemos after you Mind Read that guy in Contigo. So, continuing with Mind Reads in The Lost Age, there is one instance where Alex actually has his defenses down enough so you can get something from him that's not a clear block or him obviously knowing you're there so he gives away nothing new. This is in Jupiter Lighthouse after he heals Felix and company and states that he can throw people away when they're no longer of use to him. It's worth noting all this because the Mind Read shows that he's actually worrying about Mia and wants to help her, but he just calls himself weak for it. Apparently it's still enough to make him want to cut ties with Karst and Agatio. Before anyone says this contradicts my "never lying" point, I actually think that supports that Alex wants to be someone with no attachments to other people but even he has a bit of a heart, even if he doesn't want it.
This being the case, Veriti's claim that he loved her could be plausible. We barely know anything about her so it's hard to make arguments either way. If Alex felt any kind of attachment to her, though, his actions fit his prior behavior. He realized that he had gotten WAY too close to her and snuck off before any more damage could be done to his self-image. He was never spotted again because he was avoiding Ayuthay so he wouldn't see her again. He even didn't go to the southern passage in the Konpa Ruins when they captured Rief, i.e. the one that led to Ei-Jei. This is similar to the events around the lighting of Mercury Lighthouse. Alex obviously never entered Imil and only came out of hiding at the Aerie to make sure Saturos didn't die. Other than that, he seems to pointedly avoid Mia and anything else related to his past. Alex makes mistakes, the Golden Sun incident being the prime example. All of that quite easily could have carried over to the fateful Ayuthay trip.
Finally, and possibly the most easy to miss, is a line in Dark Dawn that people appear to have taken as just being silly, though I really hope I'm not the only person that's spotted this. When we first meet Eoleo, he notes to Amiti that he's "never seen an Ayuthay wear real clothes before." Point being: Amiti changed clothes. Why would the game designers bother to use programming space to make two versions of him? He and Paithos were the only ones dressed like that in the country so just having it be Paithos in the skirt thing wouldn't have been odd. I find it hard to believe that this was merely a silly little thing they added in. If Amiti was not dressed like a normal citizen of Ayuthay, Alex wouldn't be able to tell where he's from by looking at him.
Amiti had heard of Eoleo so the reverse could also be true which is how he guessed he was from Ayuthay. Amiti might have made a good hostage for ransom someday since he's so beloved by his people, for example. Alex may have just thought what many of the fans assumed when the art was being released: someone else got out of Lemuria. Or he may have thought it if he even cared enough about the random Water Adept in the group to want to know. Regardless, he'd have no reason to suspect he was from Ayuthay. Adepts don't come from there, especially Mercury-aligned ones. Only one person in the area ever said anything about Amiti being an Adept until he joined, and it was a random citizen at that, so it probably wasn't discussed much. Therefore, if Alex had no idea and was avoiding Ayuthay, the odds of him hearing about him are miniscule.
On top of that, no personal details about Amiti are ever mentioned when Alex is in a scene. They never say his name or his age or where he's from obviously. Not that any of that would have been overly pertinent to a conversation, but the fact that it didn't happen still supports Alex not knowing.
The short version: they provide us with some prime examples for ways Alex wouldn't be able to figure out that he has a son just by looking at him because he doesn't know and they're keeping it that way for now.
Believe it or not I could try to cite a few more things but the canon support is a bit flimsy so I won't bother. I think this is more than enough to support my theory. And if I'm wrong, I'll have serious doubts about their storytelling ability because it's usually better than what doing that would make it.